Having faith (and indeed doubts) it gives me a great sense of existence and I believe that when I die I will join my beautiful friends and family that have left me.

The sheer size and scale of the universe in all of it’s glory is way too complex to be a “coincidence”, this is a gift from the creator of everything.

I’m not a devout and I’m in no way claiming that I know everything but I would be upset if my other half informed me that they were an atheist. God bless if I am lucky enough to have a child of my own soon I will show them that a belief in Jesus Christ is more than simply “Where are the facts?!” but it hold great comfort to anybody that believes that he exists and he is waiting for you in eternal happiness. I would like to leave you with this poem, please Micki read it. I want you to (if you can) imagine this poem to be real, like a small voice in your head…

One night a man had a dream. He dreamed he was walking along the beach with the LORD. Across the sky flashed scenes from his life. For each scene he noticed two sets of footprints in the sand: one belonging to him and the other to the LORD.

When the last scene of his life flashed before him, he looked back at the footprints in the sand. He noticed that many times along the path of his life there was only one set of footprints. He also noticed that it happened at the very lowest and saddest times in his life.

This really bothered him and he questioned the LORD about it: “LORD, you said that once I decided to follow you, you’d walk with me all the way. But I have noticed that during the most troublesome times in my life, there is only one set of footprints. I don’t understand why when I needed you most you would leave me.”

The LORD replied: “My precious, precious child, I love you and I would never leave you. During your times of trial and suffering, when you see only one set of footprints, it was then that I carried you”

Peace
Himself

Big Hug,
Javier Bs. As.
Argentina

“What irks me about this whole thing is that the devout often complain about atheists’ attitude of superiority – that we look down on them as intellectually inferior.

I’m trying really hard not to do that (and it’s difficult).

”

Ironically, your snarky comment about your struggle to not feel superior is, in fact, a passive-aggressive assertion of your superiority.

I think religion’s most damning indictment is that series of atrocities done in it’s name. However, I think that will continue regardless of what people believe (or don’t believe).

The atheist argument of pure logic rings hollow to me. We love, kill, daydream, work, sacrifice, feel heartache, and we struggle. Atheism says there is no “why”, we just do it and there is nothing more and nothing else. Complete? Hardly. If anything,it sounds like a cop-out. A way to slam the drown out the millions of questions that remain unanswered.

My atheist friends say “how can God exist if he allows such bad things to happen”. I can’t defend this. I don’t know a good answer. But there’s another side to that same question. Why can’t science free me of the pain of losing my father to cancer two years ago? What is the logical purpose of me being saddled with these emotions?

You’re not superior. You just want answers the same as I do.

I hope so. This was the most disappointing aspect of the Wired article. What Harris and especially Dennett say in regards to this is really not sufficient. Dennett is correct that we don’t necessarily have good reasons to believe some of the (non-religious) things we do, his answer of continuing with absolutes or “sacred values” seems unworkable. Of course, people much smarter than me have struggled with finding another way between nihilism (regardless of what they call it) and an absolute morality (with or without god) for a very long time so I certainly can’t fault someone for not having a good solution. I hope that people keep looking, though.

B – Thanks so much for your thoughtful comments. I’m familiar with Francis Collins’s argument and I’m sure it brings comfort to many believers. But it still defies logic. Every argument I’ve ever seen to prove the existence of God presupposed that God exists. Well, if God is outside of space and time, why couldn’t he have created the universe? Sorry, I’m not following… And how do we have any insight into what’s outside of space and time?

My atheism does not come from a rejection of organized religion. I’m not a rebellious teenager. Yes, organized religion sucks even worse than FEMA but religion itself has its own dark side even without the horny priests and terrorist camps.

Anyway, thanks to all of you for leaving comments. I hope the discussion continues. And I’m super happy that this discussion is happening so much right now on the web and in our culture. Even if we can’t agree, it can’t be bad to talk about it.

Todd, you are my hero for this: …effort and energy on what it means to live in a world without a god. what does it mean to how i might live or think or do? i find much talk about the lack of god, but doesn’t it seem like everyone is still acting like there is one? it’s like many atheists who talk about a moral code that is implicit in atheism that somehow surprisingly sounds like the same ones we get from religion. —- Super interesting and a really important next step for the conversation.

it made me think of a couple of random things. Ursula K. Le Guin who, among other things, is an atheist did a translation of the Tao Te Ching a few years ago. your friend might be interested in looking at that.

also, i think that atheists, agnostics, non-theists of all types should make sure to go beyond the debate about the existence of a god (which gets so boring after awhile) and effort and energy on what it means to live in a world without a god. what does it mean to how i might live or think or do? i find much talk about the lack of god, but doesn’t it seem like everyone is still acting like there is one? it’s like many atheists who talk about a moral code that is implicit in atheism that somehow surprisingly sounds like the same ones we get from religion.